Curse

R_Frost · May 17, 2010, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

If this is something that really doesn't affect you then why are you complaining against a fix that will improve and set game play right for the pvp population that your not a part of?

its does affect everyone in a way. there has been skill updates and enemy updates in the past to combat the botters. in theory, yeah what botters do really shouldnt affect anyone that mainly does PvE, being an instanced world, but once Anet starts changing stuff trying to make it harder for the botters to do what they do then it affects everyone in one way or another.

Bob Slydell · May 17, 2010, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

I'm not quite sure, are you questioning the existence of ruptbots/enemy party window?

If so that's pretty dumb. The smallest effort on a google search will show you their existence...

No. I simply do not care about them.

MisterB · May 17, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

I really hope ANet ignores the suggestion(s) in this thread to install spyware to address the problem.

Bob Slydell · May 17, 2010, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

I really hope ANet ignores the suggestion(s) in this thread to install spyware to address the problem.

They listen to absolutely 0.00% of the suggestions from this site anyway (Thank God), so I think you got your wish already.

Ninja Ninja · May 17, 2010, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

el-oh-frickin'-el, people selling simple cosmetic bonuses in GW2 for over ten times the price of the actual game. Going to be pretty sad if some poor saps actually end up buying those things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarmk

What kind of retard is going to spend a thousand bucks in something they just bought (GW 2). Still I think they can fetch 150 so x 100 that's 15,000 right there, I can see what they do it now, well that is minus the multiple fried video cards/comp use etc, but I guess that's minimal compared to that profit.

I remember hearing something a long time ago about WoW mounts going for $1000, so look based rewards in a next gen game wouldn't be very different.

Ninja Ninja · May 17, 2010, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

They listen to absolutely 0.00% of the suggestions from this site anyway (Thank God), so I think you got your wish already.

upier's suggested changes to the mesmer profession are being added to the game and I know I saw the SF change suggested by a guru member, can't find where though...

MisterB · May 17, 2010, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

upier's suggested changes to the mesmer profession are being added to the game and I know I saw the SF change suggested by a guru member, can't find where though...

Members of the Test Krewe sign legal documents allowing ANet to accept suggestions. Some of the members of the TK are also members here. In addition, the feedback section of the wiki may also contain duplicate suggestions to anything posted here, but I can't be bothered to look. Copyright or other legal issues I don't care about are the reasons ANet no longer allow developers to view suggestions here, I believe. They are only officially allowed to take suggestions at the feedback space of the wiki from what I understand.

Ninja Ninja · May 17, 2010, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Members of the Test Krewe sign legal documents allowing ANet to accept suggestions. Some of the members of the TK are also members here. In addition, the feedback section of the wiki may also contain duplicate suggestions to anything posted here, but I can't be bothered to look. Copyright or other legal issues I don't care about are the reasons ANet no longer allow developers to view suggestions here, I believe. They are only officially allowed to take suggestions at the feedback space of the wiki from what I understand.

upier told me he wasn't on the test krewe though.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...0434816p2.html

Gill Halendt · May 18, 2010, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

its funny how all these textmod ks mod or whatever shit mod users are trying to argue for using that as a defense to not implementing a dll injection detector.

You didn't get my point. I'm not against countermeasures to injection.

I'm all for preventing injection if that's enough to stop the majority of bots, I'm just questioning the "secret implementation" of a detector you were suggesting. KSMod was just an example: KSMod is no bot, KSMod is no malicious software, yet a KSMod user would run into the detector and probably get banned if implemented with no advanced notice. Yet any forewarning would alert botters. Well, I say... Who cares? It would still hinder bots in a way or another...

This is why a detector should have been clearly implemented since the start and makes no sense now: injection shouldn't be "detected", detected injection isn't enough to spot a botter or an hacker. Injection should then be voided completely, so that neither KSMod (tolerated and not malicious, definitely not impacting on the game in any way) or any illegittimate bot relying on injection works at all.

Problem is, client-side injection is almost unavoidable (and not easily detectable), so, if they'll ever implement a detector, it'd better have a white list of exceptions, otherwise, watch most of the playerbase get banned along with those bots, while botters find some better way to hack the game...

Quite frankly, after my experience with the automated suspensions for payment fraud - dished out in errors in multiple occasions - , I wouldn't like any more computerized detectors or potentially faulty checkpoints along the line, so do it right or don't do it at all.

Danny Used Frenzy · May 18, 2010, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarmk

What kind of retard is going to spend a thousand bucks in something they just bought (GW 2). Still I think they can fetch 150 so x 100 that's 15,000 right there, I can see what they do it now, well that is minus the multiple fried video cards/comp use etc, but I guess that's minimal compared to that profit.

Anyway A.net really needs to implement something like punkbuster or a warden that is actually activated daily and not once every blue moon.

Actually, thanks to the ability to disable the graphics engine, you can run over 15 guild wars instances on even mid-range pc's pretty easily.

A 3.2 Intel Dual Core with an nVidia 9800 GTX should be able to handle well over 40 if my computer is any sort of example. (Although, I do have an Intel Extreme board that might help out a bit.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

I really hope ANet ignores the suggestion(s) in this thread to install spyware to address the problem.

So do I. It wouldn't solve the botting issue at all. Might put off botters for a couple weeks, but it would be by no means a solution.

ightgg · May 18, 2010, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

You didn't get my point. I'm not against countermeasures to injection.

I'm all for preventing injection if that's enough to stop the majority of bots, I'm just questioning the "secret implementation" of a detector you were suggesting. KSMod was just an example: KSMod is no bot, KSMod is no malicious software, yet a KSMod user would run into the detector and probably get banned if implemented with no advanced notice. Yet any forewarning would alert botters. Well, I say... Who cares? It would still hinder bots in a way or another...

This is why a detector should have been clearly implemented since the start and makes no sense now: injection shouldn't be "detected", detected injection isn't enough to spot a botter or an hacker. Injection should then be voided completely, so that neither KSMod (tolerated and not malicious, definitely not impacting on the game in any way) or any illegittimate bot relying on injection works at all.

Problem is, client-side injection is almost unavoidable (and not easily detectable), so, if they'll ever implement a detector, it'd better have a white list of exceptions, otherwise, watch most of the playerbase get banned along with those bots, while botters find some better way to hack the game...

Quite frankly, after my experience with the automated suspensions for payment fraud - dished out in errors in multiple occasions - , I wouldn't like any more computerized detectors or potentially faulty checkpoints along the line, so do it right or don't do it at all.

Quite tired of Anets automated cruise control. Banning instantly would be pointless your right, and bots would overcome it. Right again. But the fact is the bots could be easily stopped without fancy programming. A bot runs on the theory that it manipulates a human action with 100% success rate. Cool that seems simple enough to hinder. Give guildwars players only a certain space of playable data. Like for instance, one person has 10k ping and 10fps while another has 20 ping and 130fps. Limit it to a consistant 30fps and 250ping. As far as im aware its measure how fast it can read and receive client side information. A bot would have more trouble manipulating a system that didnt allow the injection enough "space" to work properly. This is just a third party view and in no way has been researched but i find its easier to control inmates when they are already within the prison walls :P

Killed u man · May 18, 2010, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Lol, you can't just give everyone equal fps and ping. FPS depends in YOUR PC, and ping depends on YOUR connection to the server.

On top of that, even if you manage to give everyone the same ping (and for arguements same fps aswell), a human simply won't be able to beat a bot's reflexes.

What we can do in 250-300 ms, maybe <250 for the gifted players, a bot can do in exactly 1ms.

This is solely for interrupting. We're not talking about weapon swapping, infusing/protting etc. bots.

oscarmk · May 18, 2010, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Used Frenzy

So do I. It wouldn't solve the botting issue at all. Might put off botters for a couple weeks, but it would be by no means a solution.

It is actually the only solution right now, the other solutions require a new game architecture, and actually yes it can work 100%, given the list on the program is updated often.

Karate Jesus · May 18, 2010, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

You seem to be quite knowledgeable about the ins and outs of all botter actions. From being able to list off all existing bots to "knowing people" planning on seling accounts with full monuments.

How do we know that you are not a botter in disguise?!?!?!?!

Awww, you're cute. No, I don't bot. I just happen to know varied people in-game and on gaming sites and I try to keep up with what's going on. Currently, botting is going on, so I try to stay aware of what's happening.

I've also known the skill update notes for almost a month and knew about the costumes before they were announced. That doesn't mean I'm on the TK or work for Anet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

It's only gonna cost you 17,50 €.

You, sir, are an idiot. Why would people pay for something that you can download for free? Hell, it's even open source. Zzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

el-oh-frickin'-el, people selling simple cosmetic bonuses in GW2 for over ten times the price of the actual game. Going to be pretty sad if some poor saps actually end up buying those things.

Could the price be an indicator of how many accounts they have to go through to farm one up to a full HoM before one of them manages to escape a ban?

Have you ever seen how much the collector's edition of Prophecies or a Divine Aura game code sell for? I've never seen a new one go for less than $500. For example, here's the cost of a used one on eBay and the prices of new/used ones on Amazon. Even if the rewards are purely cosmetic, players will still pay a ton for the prestige of them.

And I doubt the price is affected by bans.

Amy Awien · May 18, 2010, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

This is why a detector should have been clearly implemented since the start ... Injection should then be voided completely ...

The attempt would be futile, bad guys would still be able to get around it. You can not hope to control every machine your software is going to run on, specifically if the dark side is making even a little effort to avoid detection.

Quote:

... so, if they'll ever implement a detector, it'd better have a white list of exceptions

As usual the good guys would suffer from such counter measures - and autobanning would be the stupidest thing they can do. I can already see bans for people after updating their AntiVirus, Netsecurity or Rootkit-Revealers.

Shayne Hawke · May 18, 2010, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Have you ever seen how much the collector's edition of Prophecies or a Divine Aura game code sell for?

The difference is that you won't find the Collector's Edition boxes for sale by manufacturers anymore, and the GW trilogy still is, though the farming up of rewards takes time. The example would have more relevance if we knew that ANet was going to stop selling keys to GW.

Eragon Zarroc · May 18, 2010, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Awww, you're cute.

Why thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Have you ever seen how much the collector's edition of Prophecies or a Divine Aura game code sell for? I've never seen a new one go for less than $500. For example, here's the cost of a used one on eBay and the prices of new/used ones on Amazon. Even if the rewards are purely cosmetic, players will still pay a ton for the prestige of them.

That's completely different though. lol.

1)You can go and work for the cosmetic rewards that will be available in GW2 if you really want them. I can't go out and grind alot until i get collector's edition emote glow.

2) Proph collectors edition is extremely limited. Only few exist anymore and you rarely see people with it in-game anymore. Many people who have it prolly don't play too much anymore. As for GW2 cosmetics you get from HoM, a SHIT TON of people will have them (at least relative to proph collectors). They will not be special enough to warrant paying so much money for when thousands of other people will already have it, lol.

anyways, going a little of topic. ;-)

BOTTERS ARE IDIOTS! THEY RUIN THE GAME! etc, etc.

Martin Alvito · May 18, 2010, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Time has value, people. It's the world's true non-renewable resource.

There's no way the quoted prices for botted titles will fly. Unless ANet does something soon, botted GWAMMs and PvP ranks will be oversupplied relative to demand. That will set off a race to the bottom in pricing.

Remember, the valuea of most scarce in-game shinies are set by people that are way out in the tail of the distribution along three dimensions: they have IRL cash to burn, are short on time and value in-game shinies enough to spend money on them. True luxuries like rare minis and the Prophecies Collector's Edition are expensive because they are now extremely rare (low supply) and therefore coveted by a sufficient number of those players with high capacity and willingness to pay (high demand).

Besides, a lot of the people that wanted C3/R9 paid for those titles on their own accounts long ago.

Dre · May 18, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

/signed

121212121212

fowlero · May 18, 2010, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

You, sir, are an idiot. Why would people pay for something that you can download for free? Hell, it's even open source. Zzz

Not all the scripts are given out free. For instance the protbot is now only out there because Amd posted it, he originally paid 20 euro for it.